One of my Pakistani husband's Pakistani friends from grad school married a Pakistani girl from the same grad school. They just had a baby boy. We never even knew she was pregnant! This is probably only because my husband refuses to use his Facebook page and is woefully uninformed about the goings-on of his friends and family, but it also reminds me of something I thought was weird when I first found out about it: sometimes Pakistanis don't talk about pregnancy until there's a real, live baby on the outside. It's quite a shock when you're not expecting it and you, like me, think of babies as taking some time to appear rather than just magically, one day, showing up.
One of his friends from college back in Pakistan came to America for grad school and told my husband that he should come also. He had already applied to some schools but also applied to the friend's school and ended up going to the friend's school, (mostly because of funding.) About two years after graduating and marrying me, while living in a different state than the friend, my husband got a phone call from the friend; he and his wife had a baby girl! I was like, what? That's a very good friend of yours, how could you not have known his wife was pregnant?
Also, on our first trip to Pakistan, we visited another grad school friend of my husband's. He'd actually graduated the same week I met M, and he'd returned to Pakistan to teach at a university in Lahore. We wanted to travel a bit during our first trip in Pakistan, including seeing Lahore, so he called up his Professor friend and made arrangements to visit. He and his new-ish wife (though they already had one baby) insisted we stay with them for the two nights we'd be in Lahore. They were lovely, wonderfully generous, kind and fun people - the most amazing hosts I've ever had before or since. But his wife was a niqabi - she covered her whole body and even her face in flowing fabric and all you could see were her eyes. I had a headache the first night and we were out until late the next night, so I went straight to bed both evenings and never even got a chance to spend any one-on-one time with her (meaning: I never got to see her uncovered.) So I never saw what she looked like at all, though from what I could see from outside the layers of fabric, she seemed....a bit plump. I am a bit plump myself, so I just thought even nicer of her husband, the Professor friend, for giving the larger ladies of the world some attention :)
You might already know where this is going, but just 7 weeks after returning to America, my husband got an email birth announcement of their second child. She'd been pregnant! We'd stayed with them for three days and two nights, wound through the crazy streets of Lahore together and no one had even mentioned it!
My husband says it's always been that way and that in the circles he runs in in Pakistan, nobody talks about pregnancy. "It's embarrassing," he said. He couldn't say exactly why it's embarrassing, though I think it has something to do with screaming from the rooftops "By the way, in case you didn't already know, I've been HAVING SEX!" He said it was different back then, when you'd still know what was happening. He could see various ladies expanding and hear them asking other ladies to borrow their larger clothes. "Hona walli hai," his mother would say - 'It's going to happen...." though no one ever said exactly what was going to happen. (Or how it happened, actually.) Nowadays we're usually far away from people living in different cities or countries. We can't see bellies expanding or who's wearing borrowed clothes. We just get baby pictures in emails.
(That's not true of M's close family, though. They've gotten advanced in this area in the past decade. So when his sister was pregnant she called to tell us as soon as she knew, and we told them within a few weeks when we were expecting. We've gotten pregnancy announcements even from cousins, so maybe this is changing throughout his entire socio-economic class back in Pakistan - I don't know. I assume different hierarchical levels in Pakistani society treat these sensitive matters differently, also, so it may be the case that the very rich have been speaking openly about pregnancy for decades or something.)
17 comments:
This was so funny to read! Actually, I had a similarly shocking experience myself when I was living /working at a boarding school around the time I converted. I used to teach two of my bosses' daughters English on the side. One was maybe 11 and the other was 9 or so. Anyway, their mother was like obviously pregnant, about to pop any day. I mentioned to them one day that I hoped they were happy and healthy and asked how was their mother? How was the baby? They replied that he was fine (they thought I meant their 3 year old brother...). I asked if they were excited to have a new baby in the family, and again they said he had been around a while, what was new? lol. I was very confused and asked "Umm..isn't that lady over there in the other classroom your mom? The one with the big belly?" I thought maybe I was confusing their mother with another woman. They said yes, and that she had "been sick lately. No one knows why her belly is so big...not even the doctors! She has been going to the hospital a lot lately!" I was.....dumbfounded, to say the least. Then, this little girl (the 0 year old) proceeds to tell me (a mother of one already!) where babies come from! Something about a big bird and the baby in its beak, and dropping it off at the front porch in its carseat! WTH?! Anyway, I ran to get their older sister (who was 14, 15 maybe) and asked her about all this. She got a look of horror and begged me not to tell them, that they do not know where babies comes from, their parents would freak out if they knew she was pregnant.
Needless to say, I was really, really freaked out and I hoped with all my heart it was not a religious thing! (and thank God it isnt!)
You know its funny.. when we went over for the walimah hubbys uncle came around and later we were told his wife wouldnt be coming.. when I asked why he was told 'oh your dad knows why' and we were told by abu that she has a medical condition. So when I first met her, surprise surprise she was expecting in the next few weeks... medical condition??? Come on!!! anyways, she had a little girl a few days before we left and we saw her twice.. I asked all sorts of questions, what she weighed and all that everyone looked at me like there was something wrong. I was showing an interest!! and when we were about to leave (the last time we would see them for along time!) uncle looked in the room and was like 'oh shes feeding' and turned around, who cares!! Im not asking hubby to come in and check it out, so I went in to say goodbye and I could see that was a big deal to them.
Interesting things they do over there ;)
interesting! i laughed out loud too...
i remember hearing of my indian cousins who (only close family members know) have found out they are "in the family way" (can't say pregnant!) and come home to their mother's house, even if they live 1/2 way across the world in their 2-3rd month of pregnancy to be taken care of. And we cant speak of anything worrisome, or stressful or passionate while the expectant mother is around. and when the baby is born you cant make too much of a fuss over it or the Evil eye will see and cast it's Nazaar on the baby. so you basically ignore it. maybe it's different when in't only close sisters/womenfolk around - men for sure shouldnt make a big deal of babies (this is according to my Indian relations) but it's women's work/talk so then it's ok. :P
craziness. i can't imagine how they would feel if i told them that most women work up to their due date here...
My Indian guy came across this with one of his best friends who is Pakistani with a Pakistani wife. He wasn't told she was pregnant until many months along and when he went to their house for a visit she hid her stomach the entire time. I remember my guy came home and said "why is she hiding? I know she's pregnant!" (She also doesn't let anyone see her without makeup, so it may be a personal preference.) Or maybe more of a traditional thing, though they have all been raised in the UK. My guy's family back in India seems to talk about babies quite openly and I always hear when another cousin is pregnant and then when they've given birth.
Oh, this is so neat and interesting! It reminds me of old books where there are euphemisms such as "delicate condition."
It hasn't been so long that "pregnancy" was a word not to be used on TV in USA...its funny how the most natural and beautiful process in life can be considered so shameful.
I can relate to this. My husband's family still does this. Not long ago we were about to go to sleep when my husband asked if I checked my emails. I said no..then he said, I sent you pictures of my Brother's new baby. ???WHAT???!!! Of course I was full of questions and he said he didn't know. He didn't know she was pregnant at all. The same with his Sister who had a baby close to the same time. And, my husband had seen her on his trip back home and she must have been well into the pregnancy by then so I don't know how he didn't notice.
I just find it so strange that no one says anything at all. I ask all the time if it is some superstitious thing because that sort of stuff is common, but he said no...it is just something you don't talk about.
I always laugh to myself at the knowledge my husband has after being here in the US and around me and my Sister and family. I joke all the time that he could be a village doctor diagnosing common pregnancy ailments, women issues, and delivering babies lol. Of course, not by his choice. I am sure he tries to close his ears and ignore as much as he can.
I can really relate to S.A. Shhhh, don't tell my husband, (smile) but I am pregnant and am talking about it here on the blog. Actually, almost 12weeks and I am only talking about it here because he will never never see it. but, when I found out, I was excited and he was like: "Shhh, don't talk about it." We have had various discussions about it and still he does not want to talk about it and says that his friends don't talk about it either. when he doesn't take much of an interest, I am offended -- "don't you want to know what is going on with our baby?" But, he says that guys just don't take interest or talk about those things. He told one of his close friends from Pakistan and got no response. ... ... and this is a good friend. Gee, even Americans who barely know you say: "Congratulations!" Sometimes I feel like I have to tone down the excitement just to make DH comfortable. and, strangely enough, he is about as cranky and irritable as I am! Actually, privately, he does ask how I am feeling and how big the baby is now and such things. Actual baby development and birthing is something that his father doesn't know much about, so he is changing the mold a bit. And, I have gotten him to agree to accompany me into the birthing room: along with two other women. So, I guess it is a good start. It is just frustrating because I like to talk about it and he seems to be ashamed or embarrassed. I guess it does prove "you are having sex," but, wouldn't "recent marriage," scream "Now I get to have sex." Geesh.
hmmm...this reminds me of how in the book "gone with the wind", civil-war era America did much the same thing. Apparently it isn't polite conversation for mixed company. They wouldn't even leave the house or let males see them.
And now it makes sense too, because when I was pregnant my Pak husband didn't tell his friends, even though he was completely ecstatic over the whole thing. When I found out that he was keeping it from them, I was completely shocked, "What?! your friends don't know?" I totally didn't get it, and damn him too, because he didn't explain this to me either.
I also remember meeting a pakistani couple that had recently married. We were in Korea, and the wife was going home to live with her parents for some time. I told my husband, "I bet she's pregnant" but he had no comment.
I'm going to have to ask him about all this. I bet they have a kid now.
good post anyways.
Lol I was wondering why my father in law was so upset when my husband announced our good news... He said the innuendo wasn't good bc it would get guys thinking sexually, but my mother in law was clueless and had encouraged us to announce this. They're afghan, but maybe bc he spent a lot of time in Pakistan? Or maybe bc of what you mentioned, idk. Anyway it's weird to me bc sometimes ppl aren't obviously preg and I feel bad not saying anything but am too afraid thinking maybe they're just going through a chunky stage...
Well not every Pakistani does that really...but you're right, most do. Like my husband had no idea his sister was expecting twins! and no one bothered to tell us either! isn't that like a big thing?? having twins?
Anyway, in our circle of friends..everybody tells..because it's something to be happy about and share with people you care about and who care about you.
And I totally disagree that Pakistani men don't show interest in baby's development...my husband went to every single one of my appointments with me with our first born. And this time he does ask me how big the babies are and how they are growing. He also doesn't mind me flaunting my pregnancy when we go out :P its something to be proud of...
I live in a part of the US where people are taught that planning for the future means bad things will happen. Like if you plan to be prepared for bad weather, you're only inviting it. And talking about bad things is taboo. You're not allowed to discuss cancer, illness, death, funerals, or disablities. These two things lead people to not talk about their pregnancies very much. Some people think that talking about it only leads to bad things happening to the baby, and the idea is that if a bad thing were to happen to the baby you wouldn't be able to talk about anyways.
Most people in this area don't buy anything baby related until there is an actuall baby to need things. Almost all of the baby showers I go to in my home town are after the baby is born, not before.
So I wonder if part of it comes from the fact that being pregnant doens't always lead to an actual baby.
The same experience for me ...... amazing ... No one ever talks about pregnancy, even family .... It seems that children come magically and suddenly ... My boyfriend's mother was pregnant three years ago but she has never named her pregnancy until the baby was born . She said to my boyfriend - who was 24- that Allah had left the baby on the roof !!!!!!!!!!!!! so funny!
My ex-bf who was Pakistani told me a similar story. When he was a kid (about 5 years old) his mother's sister lived with them while her husband studied abroad. She was pregnant and had a baby, but no one ever talked about it until the baby was there. Instead when he and his sisters asked about where babies came from, they were told that married couples could go sign up for a baby at the hospital, but there was a 9-month waiting list, and then after the wait they would get a call and then they had to go to the hospital to pick up the baby!
Funny these things...
Sounds like the introduction of my wonderful baby boy into his family, being married into a conservative pathan family it creates certain period of what i thought was to be shared with the world to be concealed into the amidst of private life
I just had to update since I am actually pregnant and can write on this blog - (THX), ! DH's sister just can't keep it quiet! She tells everyone. then, DH started to maybe approach the situation cauciously. He told a Nepali friend who said that they should have a party. He told an Uncle (who is a doctor) and he said "Congratulations," also. I think that sometimes DH is just feeling out what things in his culture that he wants to hold on to and what things he can safely disgard. Other Asian men affirming his excitement (although DH rarely expresses "excitement" outside of a cricket game or well cooked Pakistani food) let's him know that he has not gone "too far" in becoming excited about the new baby. I know, you may ask: "why does he need other men to affirm his feelings and/or right to express them?" I say: "It is what it is."
And, To Rushes, I am glad that your DH was there for every pregnancy concern. You were quite lucky. But, it does sound like he is not the norm.
In any case, DH has agreed to come with me to every appointment and be in the birthing room. I am not sure how good of a birth coach he will be:
(I want a medication free waterbirth),
But, I know that he is stretching his cultural limits on this and I appreciate it.
I know American men who don't go to "every visit" so, I can take these actions as a sign of his quietly expressed excitement.
I also know that DH is sometimes opposed to something and then when it goes better than he expects it too, he kind of jumps on the ban wagon.
Just updating.
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