On the day after Thanksgiving, we always go to a mosque about an hour away from my parent's house. It's the mosque that was closest to M's place when he was going to graduate school, and he's always happy to go back. He likes to revisit his memories from that time, and there are always a few of the old people he used to see there, so he gets to reconnect with them too.
I can't stand the place, though. I really hate gender segregation , and I dislike it in mosques as well. Different mosques do the gender segregation thing differently, though. At our local mosque, there are a few free-standing picket fences that get moved around to cordon off areas as male or female. During prayers, they're arranged horizontally so that the women pray in the back. But at other times, such as during lectures, they are arranged vertically so that the gender divide is a left/right thing and the women are at least SOMETIMES right in the front as well. It's a small comfort for me, at least.
This particular mosque that we frequent on the day after Thanksgiving, however, segregates differently. They built a whole 'nother building, and they shove the ladies (and children, mostly) in there. They pipe in the Friday khutbah (sermon) through speakers and a TV. The speakers are crackly. The TV is fuzzy. Of course, since there's no reason to make sure it's well-received by the audience in question - it's only the women after all.
The imam's speech is bad too. He always - ALWAYS - speaks about the evil that is Thanksgiving. We should not be celebrating these "western" and "Christian" holidays. We should not be trying to imitate "them" and we should keep to our Islamic identity. Never mind that Thanksgiving is not a Christian holiday, or the fact that I am western - I *AM* "Them."
Even though I can't stand the message, and even though I probably am only doing myself a disservice by attending (I doubt that ranting on the internet about these people and this place is morally uplifting to either you or me) I still go. I want to attend Friday prayers, and that is the community I am in during that weekend and we all deal the best we can when traveling. After all, it is only one day and M derives other benefits besides any spiritual enlightenment, so I generally take one for the team.
This year, though, Eid also falls on the day after Thanksgiving, so attending services at that mosque would mean that's where we'd kick off our Eid day celebrations. Eid is supposed to be a special day and having to start the Eid day in that mosque? That is undesirable to me even when factoring M's happiness in seeing old places and friends. M agrees, so we'll be going a little farther out of our way to attend different early morning Eid prayers at another mosque near my parent's. There's no guarantee that it will be any better, but I figure that it can't get worse. InshaAllah !
So, what are your Eid plans, if you're the Eid-celebrating-sort? Or just your day-after-Thanksgiving plans? I hope you all have a wonderful Eid filled with many blessings. Eid Mubarak !
17 comments:
That doesn't make sense that you don't like segregation in a masjid. That's how it should be. What is your ideal situation? Having the men sit shoulder to shoulder with the women? Not entirely appopriate...and yes a lot of Muslims don't do Thanksgiving, but Allah knows our intention. And it just so happens Yawm Arafa falls on Thanksgiving so remember to fast tomorrow! We're doing Eid a day early w/ the extended family b/c we all won't be able to get together being Friday is Black Friday and a lot of family members work retail. Then on Saturday we have another get together at my other aunt's house. It should be fun. Have a great Eid also.
There are some cases I disagree with gender segregation, and others I agree. One place I fully agree to it is in the airport. I particularly like how India (I am sure Pakistan does this too, but never been there) has separate lines and even cloth lined booths for frisking women for security detail. The frisking is even done by women. This is so much more respectful than it is done in other countries- such as America....
What are your thoughts on this?
Sounds like you really struggle with your Mosque visits. Is it always like this or is it just today was a bit more intense?
I don't like segregation in the mosque either because the way more orthodox Muslims seem to do separate is never equal and men are always prioritized over women. The inaudible voice on the poor sound system and dark, dingy, sometimes smelly women's room or balcony is all too common. And even if the space were large, clean, and had a great sound system, it still sends the wrong message. Obviously we shouldn't mix with men socially, but we see each other in the mosque parking lot and in the store and at work, what the heck is the purpose of separating women in the prayer space. If as a man, having women in the room while you pray is distracting to your prayers because of the sexuality aspect, then you are a pervert and there is no help for you, and you aren't a spiritual person in the first place. I prefer men and women sharing the same prayer space at the mosque, the best scenario with men and women in separate groups which are side by side to each other, with an equally good view of the khaatib, and no need for scratchy audio. If there is a mosque with this set-up, we go. If not, we stay home. Luckily, the main mosque in my home town is like this.
Glad to hear that M has compromised and you won't be in for an annoying anti-American khutbah.
I like segregation since that is the way it is suppose to be. The only time its hard for me is when I am somewhere new or do not know anyone and i'm ALONE. But whenever I make myself go to those places, i always end up having a very peaceful time.
Plus thanksgiving is when the white ppl and the native americans got together, but later the native americans were all slaughtered...so I don't see the point of it.
I understand completely Gori Girl. I also get irritated when people talk of the "evils of the West" being a westerner and knowing that my family and countless others are not evil here. Don't these people consider that there are equally many "evils of the East"? In my opinion, those types of comments just make the speaker look ignorant. Then I lose respect for the speaker and cannot really respect anything else they say... it really has a strong effect on me.
Also, I agree about the mosque extreme segregation. Sitting in a completely separate room from the men upsets me at my core. I understand about segregation to a degree... but not so much that the women are in a balcony or other room. Why can't the women sit near the Imam and the men sit in the separate room with poor audio half the time? Heck, even leave the children with the men sometimes so that the women can pray more peacefully. Why can't the women just sit behind the men in the same room? If women absolutely have to be in a separate room, why don't they rally to have the speaker system improved and the carpets replaced etc? If the men are not going to support these initiatives then the women are going to have to do it themselves. Women should be able to have an equal masjid experience as the men.
Happy Thanksgiving :)
Your post got my blood boiling just thinking about it as I too hate "those" masjids. I really don't mind a little fence or whatever though I really don't see the point, but a whole other crappy, dingy, stinky room is just insulting. I also don't understand why people are saying that's the way it's "supposed" to be as in the Prophet's time men and women weren't separated by a physical barrier. Men and women didn't pray shoulder to shoulder, just men in the front rows and women behind them, so that the men stayed as the women exited. As for Imams a lot of them really need to work on their public speaking, I guess...
I completely share your sentiments about the 'anti-american/western' speeches given by Imams. I don't think anyone who gives such a speech is even fit to be an Imam in the first place!
About the gender divide, I don't really have a strong opinion on the matter. I'm okay with gender segregation at the mosque, but what I do not appreciate is when women as squished into a dingy room.
Well: I agree with gender segregation, but I also think there should be an equal, comfortable space provided to make it happen in a meaningful way. The men are partly to blame for this, but the women are equally useless at my centre: they talk all through the majliss, let the kids run crazy and leg it at the end so that we don’t ask them to help clean up! If women got together and empowered one another they could change this situation, but no one bothers to do it!! We don’t have thanks Giving here in the UK: and as for eid: well am working: will meet friends at night: that’s about it: its all you can do really when you are alone and the rest of your family aren’t Muslim!
I understand why there's a gender divide and I'm ok with it as long as it's a Left/Right divide where women get equal opportunity to good seating and facilities.
Happy Thanksgiving and Eid Mubarak to you too!
I remember being thoroughly annoyed when the Imam of the local mosque lectured about how its wrong to say Merry Christmas to Christians. I even protested through email to the head of the organization after the khutba -- turns out the Imam *was* the head of the organization.
This anti-western, anti-anything-even-slightly-different-from-Islam sentiment is very common in the muslim world, perhaps much more so in the East than in the West.
Sorry to hear about your experiences though. Hope you are able to find some place with a more reasonable Imam.
hi salams i emailed u some indian recipe ebooks did u get it?
"I can't stand the place, though. I really hate gender segregation.."
well, you won'get much sympathy from orthodox mosque goers, as like one commenter pointed out "that is the way it is supposed to be"!! It is one thing where oppression is ignored, it is totally another thing that oppressed embrace oppression thinking it is in their best interest! Segregation is insulting to everyone including men and sooo 14th century. What? muslim men cannot control themselves if they see women in the same hall they are praying? how do they function in work places, public transport, parks etc..? I think you are doing the right thing finding the right mosque as it should be a mentally uplifting experience...
http://muslimreverie.wordpress.com/2009/10/31/its-time-to-end-gender-segregation-in-mosques/
I'm sure u saw this already, it's from like a month ago, but just in case u haven't, I liked it and the comments section is really interesting, too.
Hmm.. maybe I went to that masjid today. Not really but the Imam must've studied the same talk that your Imam was going to give.
Eid in a mosque, seriously? That there are any mosques in this country big enough to accommodate an Eid gathering is kind of surprising to me. Does each mosque do it separately where you live? Here the community usually joins to all celebrate Eid on the same day, and a large location(arenas, convention centers) is reserved for the gathering and prayer.
Sir Winston Churchill on Islam :
"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
"Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytising faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."
In the most holy mosque of our religion men usually pray behind women...they do tawaf with men and are not allowed to cover their faces with a niqab... i wonder why?
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